Dr. Fraiser claims that ‘normative’ Christianity not only has nothing to do with the message of Jesus, but that it exists to stifle that message as its mortal enemy.

Jesus prophetic message sent directly from God by God was to love God (Jesus), neighbor and self. The rest is commentary.

1. why is God a he?

2. I totally agree with God operating outside of man’s thought processes. However substitutionary atonement doesn’t sound plausable. It’s about a totally loving God, incarnate in Christ, reconciling us to him. On the cross Jesus dies for our sins, the price of our sin is paid, but it is not paid to God, but by God. I reject the notion that Christ’s death assuaged God’s anger at the sins of humanity.

I see the Christian focus on Jesus suffering and death as being at the heart of much of the suffering inflicted BY Christians. Rather, it is the many positive aspects of Jesus life, his non-violence and concern for justice, which are worth of study and imitation.

This theology of substitutionary atonement is composed of many elements in scripture and tradition–references to Jesus’ death as a sacrifice, ideas of redemptive suffering, and a deep tradition of eucharistic remembrance that Jesus died “for us.” These elements appear in all branches and eras of Christian tradition. But the organization of them into a complete substitutionary view of the atonement is much less universal. Such a view has never been prominent in the Eastern Christian church, and it was not the dominant view in the Western church for the first half of its history.

Many scholars, and myself included, think the rise of atonement theology represented a terrible wrong turn, plunging Christian spirituality into a toxic brew of idealized masochism, authorized retributive violence and social domination.

that it was rather about Jesus rendering the power of unforgiveness and bitterness, etc., ineffective. In this sense, Jesus gave his life in example so we could be liberated from those attitudes which kept us bound. Giving his life freely was the only way to set humanity free from their wrong attitudes (sin).

So it is not that God needed a sacrifice for sins. It is not that God needed Jesus to pay for sins or to become sin for us. The death and resurrection of Jesus was moreso about waking humanity up to the evil that pervaded their hearts.

I don’t think God put Jesus on a cross. I think humanity did. I think hanging Jesus on a cross was an outward expression on what filled the hearts of humanity. In a sense, Jesus was saying ..I want to be magnet for all of your anger,pain, bitterness, unforgiveness, negative energy, etc. Take it out on me… so we can move on and play a new game.

Aahhh! But what responsibility does The Creator have toward His creations? What responsibility does a parent have toward His children?

Don’t forget. In Genesis 1:1, the noun “God” is plural and the verb “created” is singular. At least in the original Hebrew. (Sorry to be repeating myself, Michelle, but when you’ve got a good idea you can’t help but share it! )

And, if you care to think about it, that simple lingustic “glitch” answers a lot of questions.

I cant speak for every one of my colleagues, but that sounds good to me.

Luke,

I realize the struggle that much of this stuff presents, however it is important to realize that if God were truly God, then He wouldnt need our approval of the way He has done things. In other words, the fact that you (i imagine) comment sarcastically on God’s “great reasoning” seems to communicate you would have preferred God consult you on the way He has chosen to redeem His people. If I am reading you incorrectly I apologize.

I dont want that to sound harsh, but if God cannot operate without our say-so than He is no better than little man-made idols.

great reasoning.

instead i suggest we take the idea that jesus was indeed a sacrifical lamb but with a twist. he was the scapegoat of his people. it is recognized that animal species other than humanity also learn by imtation, nevertheless, humans lack the ‘braking mechanism’ of animal species where rivalry ends when one submits to the other (dominance-submission).

Mimesis, this imitative desire that leads us to violence, has been redeemed through the person and work of Jesus. Just as Jesus imitates the Father, so we who have been called by him, imitate him. That is, redemption consists of a real alternative; to imitate one another or to imitate God.